Hi there! I see over in Disable primary-paste by default (!119) · Merge requests · GNOME / gsettings-desktop-schemas · GitLab that Gnome is considering removing middle-click paste. I love this feature and rely on it constantly; it’s one of the things I really miss in other operating systems. The discussion over on gitlab is locked, so I’m not sure how best to contribute to the discussion, but I do want to say that this is important to me, and I hope Gnome leaves middle-click paste intact.
6 Likes
Just to note: The MR you refer to is simply about changing the default.
There seems to be no plan to remove the functionality itself currently, just what you get when you have made no setting yourself.
And you can change it easily with GNOME Tweaks or Refine or a basic GSettings command, as mentioned in the MR.
And, speaking from my personal perspective:
I consider it to be a good change. I had times where for some reason suddenly I had text at unexpected places, because I accidentally clicked the middle button and it pasted the clipboard. For someone who never grew up with this X11 artifact it was always an confusing default. So I can understand the reasoning and support this default changed.
Since we’re only talking about the default being changed, I see this as an improvement without much drawbacks.
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This MR is about changing the default value of the existing option that can be used to disable or enable middle-click paste. If the default value is changed to false you can change it back to true and keep using this feature.
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I’ve already created an issue to discuss, because only project members are allowed to discuss in the merge request.
In other words, you’re choosing a hypothetical user base over the existing, active one – a decision that makes no sense for a product that has to serve the people who actually use it today.
As a devops engineer I use the middle-click-paste hundret times a day. An in a company with >200 Windows User, I’ve never see one single person who uses the middle-click-scroll feature.
+1 for keeping the behavior like it is - keep the middle-click-paste!
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The same can be said about the current situation.
It can remain true (default), and anyone who doesn’t like it can set it to false.
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I would like to see the default remain middle-click to paste.
Window manager defaults shape the next generation of users; in ten years, a generation of gnome users would have come up without this behavior, and will be less inclined to support it. It also means that application developers are likely to start claiming middle-click for other behaviors, which will make those applications harder to use when you have middle-click enabled.
I’ve actually been struggling with non-default WM behavior breaking applications this month. I got bit recently by the infamous Steam right-click menu bug, which seems to be related to folks who use focus-follows-mouse. For months I couldn’t access key functions like “uninstall a game”. can't select dropdown menu options · Issue #9273 · ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux · GitHub
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GNOME does not serve anybody: we are aiming at making a desktop for everyone, but it’s a volunteer effort, and y’all aren’t really paying for a product.
Making a desktop for everybody entails, by definition, the ability to reach out to people that are moving away from existing environments, none of which have a primary selection buffer separate from the usual clipboard; most of them have uses for a middle click gesture, though, and it does not involve pasting text.
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I would be willing to bet with you that most users of GNOME (or GTK on Linux in general) do not know or use the middle-click-to-paste feature.
In fact, I only know it because I thought once there was a bug which inadvertently pastes text from time to time. Then I learned there was a weird, to me unknown feature, which was promptly turned off once I knew of it.
And using the middle mouse button for other use-case is not that uncommon, especially in creative apps such as Blender.
So, I don’t advocate for removing the feature entirely. But I’d argue that this is a pro-feature for a small group of people, who can be bothered to opt into this behavior.
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Except its a bad default. Vast majority of people just do not use it and do not like it. Before this drama i didnt even saw anyone speaking positively of this feature.
And in fact, i am surprised to see just how much of an outrage there is. At first I thought Jordan overreacted with locking the MR, but now i can safely say i understand why he did that.
3 Likes
I am definitely in favor of keeping this enabled by default. Based on my observations, disabling a feature by default often leads to its eventual removal, creating a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy. Providing a first-party option to enable or disable it, rather than requiring Tweaks or a command-line switch, would help ensure that it remains a supported feature.
If this kind of change is being proposed, I think it would be helpful to first gather more information about how widely the feature is actually used and whether there are ways to improve its discoverability. That approach may be more productive than changing a long-standing feature without that broader context. While middle-click paste can sometimes be inadvertently triggered, it remains a significantly more efficient workflow.
Take for example copy-pasting text in a terminal.
With middle-click-to-paste
- Move to the text
- Double left click while hovering over it (this can be troublesome but Illustrates the point)
- Middle Click
Repeating the same thing without
- Move to the text
- Double left click while hovering over it
- Right click
- Move to hover over “Copy”
- Left click on “Copy”
- Right Click
- Move to hover over “Paste”
- Left click on “Paste”
The difference, 3 steps versus 8, adds noticeable overhead for a very common task.
This is just my personal perspective. I’m not opposed to change in general, but changes that increase the effort required for tasks I perform every day have a real impact on my workflows.
5 Likes
Ah, actually, it is the other way around. I yet to have find someone who use the middle click for anything other than paste a text. As I said it can remain what it is now and if user doesn’t like the behaviour, they can change it
Well, there are almost zero users who use middle click for anything. Not even in KDE or the infamous Windows world.
Hence, this MR does not make sense.
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Scrolling is an easy example.
The MR also explicitly mentioned that the feature is incredibly niche, not well-known (this whole drama reminded me this thing exists, the only reason why i didnt hit it in a long time was because my last two mouses’ middle button wasnt trivially clickable) and very confusing.
[quote=“tragivictoria, post:13, topic:33477”]
Scrolling is an easy example.
[/quote]
And no one uses that. Haven’t seen a single soul use it.
[quote=“tragivictoria, post:13, topic:33477”]
The MR also explicitly mentioned that the feature is incredibly niche, not well-known (this whole drama reminded me this thing exists, the only reason why i didnt hit it in a long time was because my last two mouses’ middle button wasnt trivially clickable) and very confusing.
[/quote]
Exactly why I have said the MR does not make any sense.
Firefox have this, and in order to use it middle-click paste needs to be disabled.
Then, if you want to use that, just disable the paste by middle click.
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I’d say this is quite common if you have a canvas or 3d space.
Just a few programs that come to my mind:
- Blender
- Godot Engine
- Inkscape
And I have used it regularly in these apps.
Having it for copy-paste is the use-case I have not seen anyone do, at least not intentionally.
And I say its bad if your feature is mainly known for being an inconvenience.
Like I said before, I am not for removing it. But this is so clearly an old artifact unclear to new users that it doesnt make sense as a default.
Which is very niche use case.
And as I said, I haven’t seen anyone around using it for anything other than copy and paste.
Also it is actually a very convenient way of moving text specifically with the way gnome multi workspace works.
As for Firefox that other person mentioned, you have the best possible scrolling tools in your hand(it called scroll wheel on the mouse) and i use the middle click in browser to past links too so that would be another annoying thing that this will cause.
I beg you to stop trying to appeal to your own experience and extrapolating it to other people.
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Why tho?
Others used the same logic. They tried to say no one uses this feature just based on their own experience.
This coming from a gnome member is really embarrassing.
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