That’s not stock GNOME. You don’t have Ethernet, VPN, microphone or connected bluetooth devices
Unless you have a laptop and actually go places (remember those wild pre-2020 times where we went places)
The point is that shutdown is an exception, in Files deleting a file “deletes” it immediately with an in-app notification offering to undo it for a short period. With shutdown ya can’t do that.
One could argue we havent’ seen one against it either
Tweaks is a 3rd party app, like extensions they can do whatever they want (get programming!)
Turning on and off your device is basic stuff. You don’t need to take it into quotes as if it wasn’t true. And the fact that you personally prefer to put your device to sleep with a hotkey instead, is not a valid argument.
And then to the center of the screen. Yes, this is true. And true about Windows - it’s 3 clicks very close to each other - the most convenient design for now.
I hope it’s a joke. How many decades it took for them to create easily accessible WiFi, Bluetooth and other stuff on iPhone? Dark theme? Minimizing a call? I prefer judging the actual deeds, not big names.
I was super serious. If there’s a problem, extensions will emerge to fix it. As they do now fixing the discussed problem. I don’t know the extensions for “clearer interface buttons” before and can’t imagine somebody creating an extension for make an extra confirmation because he often misclicks something. Again, I like the new design with names on the buttons and even an extra submenu, as long as I’m able to easily disable the last confirmation dialog on the center of the screen (which seems excessive now). Which I cannot do.
This is very good. An option to adjust the panel. All I ask is a similar option to adjust the last confirmation menu during the shutdown. Not even in Settings but in Tweaks at least.
Problem is without that dialogue we don’t have an option to reboot (which considering the number of laptop users is possibly more common than actually shutting down)
It also leads to inconsistency, you can’t outright remove it since you still want the dialogue when there are active inhibitors (e.g. didn’t save document) or another session is still active (e.g. ssh) or there are updates ready to install
Unlikely to be in Settings and as said before what external apps do is their problem
This is Manjaro Gnome from the live USB with “switch user”, GSConnect and VPN added. Bluetooth is on. I don’t have Ethernet cable so I couldn’t add it.
So, you establish 2-3-4 connections, one time each. I think hiding in the combined “Network” menu with WiFi wouldn’t be too offensive for Ethernet. And maybe even VPN with them, though I won’t argue here.
Now compare it to shutting down every day. And if you have a dual install with Windows (never happens for the Linux users), then it might be multiple restarts with confirmations at least from time to time.
Nobody else in any DE on any device uses 4 clicks and such a long course of the mouse movement. And I never heard complaints that somebody accidentally turned off his PC. At most, you can once in a decade click Shutdown instead of Restart or vice versa (as they are close) which is not a big deal at all. (here I’m talking about my Windows experience) I can’t see this as a good enough excuse to perform an extra confirmation on a daily basis.
Ok. Though, there is some kind of collaboration with the Gnome team exists, I suppose. As Gnome introduced Extensions, they deleted it from Tweaks at the same time.
I’ll put my last thoughts about the topic. I suggest considering one of the following options:
Combining Ethernet with WiFi (and possibly VPN) into a sub-menu as they are not accessed often. And at the same time remove the sub-menu for Shut down / Log out as they are used much more often.
Making an option to easily disable the last confirmation dialog on the center of the screen. I believe this is an outdated concept. Computers are not new to this world anymore. People of all ages keep getting more and more experience with them and “accidentally shut down through 3 separate actions, need an extra check” seems very unconvincing to me.
Making the whole menu totally customizable (as in Firefox for example).
If the devs still don’t agree, there’s not much I can add to what I’ve already written.
Based on how you’ve quoted I think you’ve missed the point
Shutdown is an exception from the ask forgiveness model
If I decide to rearrange your books it can be undone if you don’t like it (move to wastebasket)
If I decide to burn all your books it can’t be undone, the books are gone (shutdown)
Just because you don’t use them often doesn’t mean they aren’t used, which really shows the point of this whole issue: unlike us you apparently reboot your machine all the time but rarely touch networking whereas I often need to mess with WiFi but rarely reboot
Combining those items would lead to sub-sub-menus which isn’t great
Ah so having unsaved documents, multiple users & updates waiting to install are outdated concepts
It adds two items that are always visible, but also reduces the total amount of items by two, since there isn’t a sub menu any more, which should actually improve the small display situation.
I understand both sides here, but I honestly have to agree, that four clicks to power off just feels a little odd.
Yeah, it shows the status-quo with which everybody is fine (including Gnome for decades before now). You actually need the arguments to change the status-quo, not to keep it.
I have not. I’ve already said that with such an argument you can go as far as you wish - defend the need for 20 or 200 confirmations. “Are you absolutely sure? Are you super sure? Are you extra mega sure you want to shutdown? Really? No kidding? Can you swear with your life you want this?” Or we can ask for a user and a root password to shutdown. Because, you know, it can’t be undone.
This is literally what we have now with Shutdown. With the difference of the last sub-menu is moved to the center of the screen. But this is still the same sub-menu for just 1 extra option - Restart. This is ridiculous.
The majority of Linux users have dual-install with Windows. At least on their home computers. This means inevitable reboots. And the majority doesn’t “mess with networking” often. Or you can provide an example of the opposite?
What do unsaved documents have to do with ridiculous amount of clicks to shutdown or restart? If you opened up this sub-menu, it means you want to finish your current session, there can be no to opinions about it - this sub-menu serves no other purpose.
I feel like you continue to argue to just win at any cost. This dispute is losing its point.
Okay, I think we should close this topic. It’s clear that somebody thinks that shutting down a machine is an incredibly common operation, and that minimising the amount of clicks to perform it is paramount; other people are not really convinced of this.
We are going in circles, so it’s an entirely futile discussion.
If the people that rely on being able to shut down their machine—or the machine of their loved ones—in three clicks or less can present a proper proposal, taking into account all the objections raised over the past 68 messages in this topic, they should open an issue against GNOME Shell, and possibly involve the GNOME design team. User testing to verify the assertion that fewer actions are needed to reboot/shut down a machine in order for newcomers to GNOME to effectively use the desktop, would also be welcome.
