New Shell design (feedback)

I was just wondering if having the ability to disable workspaces and then treating the single workspace mode differently might solve things for people who find the current workspaces design troublesome, but i couldn’t remember what options were already available. In gnome tweak you can already set it to use one workspace. I have 9 windows open and i just did that i can see everything just fine, and so much reasoning about my desktop is achieved. :slight_smile:

Maybe this is much ado about nothing? Why not just set one workspace as the default and call it a day? Then “power users” can enable multiple dynamic workspaces and everyone is happy. If there were some minor improvements to how single workspace mode worked, tweak that. No need to overturn the whole apple cart.

Hi there, I already commented on this on a GitLab issue. Because the GitLab issue has been closed, I thought I’d post a shortened version of my comment here for better visibility.

@aday wrote:

The reason for switching from vertical to horizontal, as described in the blog post, is to allow us to use the vertical axis for travel into and out of the overview, both in terms of the spatial model for the system, and specifically to have a coherent set of gestures and shortcuts for navigation.
As part of the design process, we did attempt to retain the vertical workspaces and use the horizontal axis for travel in to and out of the overview, but it never looked good or behaved well.

As far as I can think, it completely doesn’t matter for a touchpad or a touchscreen if the gestures are performed horizontally or vertically. If we can use a left-right-swipe to switch workspaces, we can also use a left-right-swipe to switch the view. Except if horizontal swipes are for whatever reason worse than vertical swipes, but why should view changes be first class citizens and workspace changes second class citizens then, and not the other way around?

As I think regarding touch devices input, the scrolling direction is irrelevant, I don’t think it actually is, but for other resasons.

Conventions

For decades of digital user interfaces, scrolling through things that don’t fit on the screen has been vertical. Unlike other UI conventions, this has been applied nearly everywhere: From mobile phones to PDAs to bank terminals to desktop UIs. You can even see Douglas Engelbart in his 1968 presentation of his graphical user interface scroll vertically.

But why is that so? Why has this convention been so widely adopted?

The reason lies in a much older convention, the convention of western writing. In western languages, letters are arranged horizontally, but then grouped in arrays of vertical lines. Having these lines not go for too long and break at a certain point is crucial for a good reading experience. That’s why nearly all books written for non-infants are printed in a portrait format. And this is also why all modern websites that are made with 16:9 screens in mind have max-widths for their text containers. And it’s why we’re used to scroll vertically.

So it looks like having both an app grid and a workspace overview that scroll horizontally does not only break the conventions within Gnome apps (I haven’t seen any plans to make Nautilus scroll horizontally) and the conventions established by 10 years of the Gnome shell. It breaks with the conventions of the world.

Keyboard and Mouse navigation

In fact, the design goals blog post states the following:

One of the nice things about having a simpler spatial model and directional gestures to navigate the shell is that it also helps keyboard navigation. This is because it allows for directional shortcuts (e.g. Super + PgUp to move to the workspace above) which are more intuitive than non-directional ones (e.g. Super + M to open the notification popover).

And it’s damn right.

Looks like the conventions about vertical scrolling are so wide-spread that they are even baked into our hardware: Keyboards have PgUp and PgDown keys stemming from the good old times, and most mouse wheels only move vertically. One of the coolest things about the current spatial model of the Gnome shell is that it works well with all of these input methods.

However, keyboards and mouses seem to become second-class citizens with the new horizontal design: While it doesn’t matter for touch devices, it’s unclear how the current mouse and keyboard navigation is going to work in the future.

Are Super+PgUp/Super+PgDown going to stop working in Gnome 40, or are they going to awkwardly move the workspace to the left and right?

Screen proportions

Although some people are lucky having a 16:10 screen, most screens today have a 16:9 aspect ratio. That’s why for layouts targeting desktop- or tablet devices, column-based layout are the way to go. You can see that on websites, were the long-awaited Flexbox and CSS Grid enable website creators to display columns on desktop where rows will be displayed on portrait-mode mobiles, forcing designers to maintain two layouts, but they think it’s worth it, because row-based layouts don’t work well on widescreen displays.

You can observe this on MacOS, where the workspace overview slices the already thin screen into three thinner rows, feeling awkward even on a 16:10 screen. In comparison, the current Gnome design does a pretty good job at dividing the aspect ratio into comfortably usable columns. I think it would be a pity if Gnome gave that up for repeating the design mistake Apple made in times of 4:3 screens.

Spatial design

I really like your idea of moving different views into a spatial model instead of having them just being “modes” that appear and disappear. The latter is very unpleasant from a designer’s perspective, and having three views that show different levels of overview expand the current model into something coherent. And I understand that within the perspective of this design of having these views positioned on-top of another, it makes sense to have the workspaces not also on-top of another.

However, I still have one problem with these views being positioned on-top of another vs. workspaces being positioned on-top of another, and it sums up into one question:

Where are my windows?

No, really, where are my windows in your model? Are they in the bottom view, overlapping and floating, or are they in one of the upper views, placed on workspaces?

If we really treat our views like places in our spatial model, these questions need to be answered. Because as of 2020, the nature of quantum mechanics are not very present in most people’s imagination, therefore it does not at all benefit the idea of a spatial model that the same things are placed at multiple places at the same time.

Currently in Gnome, the perspective change is represented as a “view mode change”. This is indeed not optimal for animations and gestures which work best providing a spatial model. But I don’t think we make it better replacing it with a spatial model that does not quite fit.

Conclusion

Finding a spatial model that fits the change of perspective offered by the window/activity overview requires more investigation, and I think it would be a pity if, after all this amazing work being done, doing scientific studies and showing all of these beautiful mockups, it just stopped with this concept that, if implemented in the current form, has consequences which receive some major and rectified criticism.

And there were pretty important things found out by these studies. For example, how much users prefer interfaces that convey spatial models of the views they’re interacting with.

One model that not only works with vertical workspaces, but also represents “where the windows are” would be a 3 dimensional one: As the three layers of the mockup show different perspectives of the same windows and workspaces, having the windows and workspaces getting smaller the more into “bird-perspective” the views get, it made absolute sense IMHO if the screen zoomed in and out between the perspectives that currently are planned to be displayed on-top of another. This could be conveyed by animations as well as touch gestures (pinching). This actually seems to be the spatial model behind Gnome’s current design, although it is not consequently worked out and, for example, leaves out workspaces. This is something that actually could be worked on.

In fact, we don’t need to do some fancy 3D rendering, everything needed to better portray the current spatial image of our workspaces would be shrinking the background image, draw a border around it and move the background image instead having it fixed when switching workspaces.

It is not worth to deploy a new spatial model into the minds of our users, as long as it doesn’t integrate well with their workflows, and most of all, the rest of Gnome’s design. After all, deploying massive changes at once nearly always leads to users blaming the whole concept for little problems with the realisation (which are inevitable). Same thing happened to Windows 8 (which btw. also featured horizontal scrolling on their start screen, which has been one huge target of criticism and been undone in Windows 10).

And this is not what I want to see here, as the concept it good: Showing the Activity view on boot absolutely makes sense, better portraying the workspace in a spatial image also. Good concepts like this deserve an incremental deployment, that doesn’t antagonise users by completely messing with their way of using the computer, and that can take feedback into account that will be targeted at the small implementation details that come up which each version and not a shitstorm that will unfairly be thrown at the whole concept. As much as I love the fact that there were scientific studies made for this, they were made in artificial environments that only portray the individual concept in isolation, and can’t replace actual real-world user feedback.

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I’m surprised that there are people who actually like the current vertical placement of the workspaces. I always thought is was a huge usability mistake…

Image you have five papers that you want to place on your desk. How would you order them? I think most people (in the western world) would order them from left to right and not from the top to the bottom. This is also how I imagine my windows on my desktop and so for me a horizontal design is a little bit more logic.

But interesting that people have different preferences about this!

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Some questions from a user that uses workspace heavily in daily life:

  1. Am I losing dynamic workspace with the new design? Dynamic workspace is the most useful part of GNOME for me but in video it seems there are only 3 workspaces (and some are empty). I never switch between apps, I put them into different workspaces and then switch workspaces quickly, 3 is too small for me.

  2. Is it easily to move app to other workspaces with the new design? With old design I can simply drag an app and drop it into the thumbnail of other workspaces, or create new workspace by dropping apps between thumbnails, but there seems no thumbnails, how can I do this? Do you mean I need to drag an app to the unclear screen edge and guess how suddenly the workspace will move like many phone? Oh no it’s painful, I do this every day and I need some precious way.

  3. Does the new design keeps the same or less operations to switch workspaces? With the old design I can just switch workspace with Super+PageUp/Down, but there is no PageLeft/Right key on my keyboard! Super+Alt+Left Arrow is a worse option because it needs more keys (I know it’s easy for some people to press more keys, but not people like me, less key is easier). Also, vertical layout is better because most people’s mouse can only scroll down/up, not scroll left/right! When I scroll down my mouse, it’s clearly that I mean down! It’s painful for user to learn “no, this is left”!

Anyway, the new design looks shiny and new things are always better than no change. But I am using GNOME Shell every day, not only for entertainment but also for my work. So I have to keep it efficient instead of just “looks cool”. If all the answers of my questions is “NO”, I suggest you to re-consider it.

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But your keyboard has PageUp/Down (not PageLeft/Right), your mouse can only scroll up/down, so I don’t think a horizontal layout is suitable for computer…

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Looks like you can only see all workspaces when you open app grid, no, I am not interested of app grid, I need a way to see both apps on my current workspace and thumbnails on all workspaces like now.

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I might be projecting my thoughts here, but one of the strengths of GNOME is how it doesn’t rely on a traditional desktop metaphor to be intuitive, so there’s no real need for your workspaces to be represented by anything physical (which would also be kind of complicated, do you mean to say you have 5 desks to represent workspaces side to side and you sit in different chairs for different activities?)

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Well, of course… Are you telling us that you stack your desks and move your chair up and down for different activities?!

On a serious note, I tend to agree that horizontal scrolling is just nasty and should probably be avoided for the most part.

However, I don’t think it would really be that bad as far workspaces go. If it’s implemented like the typical carousels that are widely used around the web or like a coverflow type widget it could potentially be very slick and usable.

But I don’t rely on workspaces very much anyway or really the app grid or that lame thing on the left that’s kind of like a dock but not really.

Honestly, as long as search and launching from search works as well as it does now everything else could disappear and I’d be a happy camper.

So I guess what I’m saying is let’s hope the people working on it really listen to those who actually use these features and ensure that they still work well for them while looking good in screenshots.

Yep. Replacing the desktop with the Overview, Dash and excellent keyboard usability was brilliant :slight_smile:
GNOME did actually a lot of things right with GNOME3! The most critic afterwards was caused by removal of features or options. But I will never missed desktop icons or the system tray.

Computing often sticks with weird traditions, mere copies or tries to resemble the actual world blindly. The desktop metapher from Windows is one of this things. Even MacOS didn’t managed to get rid of the clutter of desktop icons. Well, Microsoft tried to replace the desktop icons with the tiles - but failed finally. It is always funny to see people ordering icons, fighting with resulting changes and minimzing windows to be able to click the icons :stuck_out_tongue:

Senseful change is a good thing.

Hey @hoshi. You’re not alone; in our research we found a high proportion of people not using workspaces at all. We certainly want any design changes to be appropriate in those cases.

One thing I’d suggest here is waiting until there’s an actual implementation to look at. The mockups in the blog post are probably a bit more generous when it comes to padding, which affects the proportion of the screen being used.

I’m definitely interested in having the design adapt to these single workspace cases and it might be that we could take some extra space from the sides. We’ll see!

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Hi @AlynxZhou, welcome! These are great questions.

Am I losing dynamic workspace with the new design?

No, we’re expecting them to remain dynamic by default.

Is it easily to move app to other workspaces with the new design?

It will be possible to drag a window to another workspace. As you drag the workspaces will zoom out to become smaller thumbnails.

Does the new design keeps the same or less operations to switch workspaces? With the old design I can just switch workspace with Super+PageUp/Down, but there is no PageLeft/Right key on my keyboard! Super+Alt+Left Arrow is a worse option because it needs more keys (I know it’s easy for some people to press more keys, but not people like me, less key is easier). Also, vertical layout is better because most people’s mouse can only scroll down/up, not scroll left/right! When I scroll down my mouse, it’s clearly that I mean down! It’s painful for user to learn “no, this is left”!

My understanding is that the old shortcuts will be supported in addition to the new ones.

It is unfortunate that Super+Alt+Arrow is more keys than Super+PgRight. On the other hand, Super+Alt are typically next to each other, and it’s really nice being able to use it in all four directions.

To be honest, I haven’t particularly come across people struggling to remap up/down scrolling to left/right.

By changing from a vertical orientation to a horizontal one, we’re getting worse shortcut keys (complex 3+4 key combinations instead of simpler 2+3 key combinations), entirely losing mouse wheel support (or have it act bizarrely), and will have to wrap our heads around an unnatural scrolling direction that breaks away from tradition and is inconsistent with everything else in the world.

Look at this very forum thread page. What direction are you scrolling in to move between posts? Vertically. Imagine if all the posts were instead laid out horizontally, and we had to scroll down with our mouse wheel to move right to view further posts. That would be very strange, unnatural, and inconsistent with every other website! And yet it’s the same thing that this new GNOME design is suggesting.

It seems that at least the extra keyboard key requirement has been acknowledged, if nothing else. Personally, I think requiring a whopping four keys for a commonly used shortcut (move window to another workspace) is a very poor choice. Common shortcuts should require less keys, so that they’re easier to perform more regularly.

Could we get any clarification about what huge benefit(s) are being gained that make this a worthy trade-off? What are we supposed to be gaining in exchange for this, other than “it looks pretty and symmetrical”?

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i think the tradeoff is that they are going to make workspaces and the rest of the desktop easier for people to understand who don’t use work spaces (and who might not even use gnome/linux), while wasting screen real estate, possibly making switching between work spaces slower, and making keyboard and mouse clicks less ideal for people who do use work spaces, all without ever putting real effort into educating new users about recommended usage (that i know of). I hope i’m wrong…

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To be honest, I still don’t understand what we’re trading against.

Yes, the design proposals look amazing. But that’s because of their visuals, not because of their layout. You could as well implement the new visuals with the old layout (including the spatial visualisation of workspaces, the app icons on the windows, and the beautiful animations of the proposal). Also, showing the activities overview at startup sounds like a very good and sane proposal I haven’t read any criticism about, but this also doesn’t rectify the horizontal layout.

I’ve read about the idea that this new design gave us a spatial orientation by putting the views on top of another. But I watched the video in the blog post now, and I noticed: The animations do not at all convey this spatial model. They oppose the spatial model described by the proposed touch gestures and are inconsistent with it.

The only spatial model improvement we get is that the desktops are visualised with separated wallpapers that have borders around them and move as you change the workspace. But this does not require the rest of the changes.

@allanday
Could you please explain the benefits of that layout? The arguments from the blog post alone are not precise enough, as the improvement of the spatial model is not true/could also be implemented in the current layout as it’s only stylistic, the layout being horizontal has seen no further explanation than “it didn’t feel right with this new layout otherwise”, and the simplified touch gestures (swipe instead of pinch) don’t match the visuals of your layout anyway, so they could as well be implemented in any other direction.

I think to everyone who expressed criticism here, it is not clear what you want to reach with this layout change. But we know what we lose:

  • the ability to oversee all workspaces after pressing super
  • workspace scrolling that follows the conventional scrolling directions
  • app grid scrolling that follows the conventional scrolling directions and the directions performed on the hardware (mouse wheel/pgUp,pgDown)
  • a spatial image of workspaces that follows the directions we perform on our hardware (mouse wheel/pgUp,pgDown)
  • the spatial image being consistent between touch gestures and the animation (currently, we use the pinch gesture, and the animation looks kind of like it’s zooming out - this could be improved, but at least the direction is consistent)
  • a spatial image that makes sense (3 views at 3 places all displaying the same items at different sizes does not makes sense)
  • a column based design that fits desktop devices (EVERY designer makes effort to transfer row based designs to a column based designs on desktop for websites as well as apps, I don’t think I need to explain this)
  • a user interface that is popular, beloved and that everybody learned
    (remember: it’s not like all Gnome users are nerds waiting for the year of Linux desktop to come. Linux on desktop is already in use in many companies and government administrations, and they all got used to the way Gnome currently works, and it’s not part of their job or their personal interest to relearn the interface)

If you don’t at least explain the design choices with new arguments, or explain why the counter arguments stated here don’t disprove your original arguments, the deployment of this design is going to result in people hating it. You can’t just take things away from people and not properly explain why and expect no shitstorm to happen.

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It will be possible to drag a window to another workspace. As you drag the workspaces will zoom out to become smaller thumbnails.

Sounds good, though it’s better to have workspace thumbnail in all time. But this is definitely an acceptable way to drag and drop windows.

To be honest, I haven’t particularly come across people struggling to remap up/down scrolling to left/right.

Well, now you get one. It’s not too hard, it’s just … uncomfortable, you know. And using mouse scroll to change workspace is important, too. Please try to keep it, don’t use mouse scroll for other functions that are not so important.

Personally I hardly use “App Grid” (less than once per week) because the search is really good.

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@allanday Thank you for the insight.

Of course. (Also, the fact that you’re asking makes me think that I should blog about this.)

I think the layout has three or four primary benefits:

  • We get a coherent model for system navigation touchpad gestures and keyboard shortcuts: up, down, left, right. The gestures in particular are an area that’s sorely lacking at the moment, particularly when you compare GNOME with Mac.
  • Going to the overview for boot and empty states provides a more helpful jumping off point. This is facilitated by the new layout, particularly the scaled down workspaces. Instead of a void, the user is presented with a target.
  • Workspaces are more intelligable with the new layout (we saw this in user testing). People can look at them and figure out what they are.
  • General look and feel in use. This is the spatial model argument, which I think comes in once you use the design and see all the transitions in action. Things fit together in a way that makes sense.

I hope that makes sense!

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Thank you very much for taking time to reply. Yes, I think another blog post about the rationale behind the horizontal layout (and maybe some insight into the study’s results) is a good idea and helped to gain acceptance for these changes among the community.

However, I tried to convey one major point, and you reply makes it appear like I was not clear enough. It’s the fact that all the criticism here is not focused on the whole redesign, but rather only on the horizontal layout part of it.

I don’t think I’m in position to “speak for the community”, but from everything I’ve read here, on GitLab and on Reddit

  • everybody loves the new visuals and wants to see them landing in Gnome ASAP
  • everybody loves the overview showing at boot and the new visualisation of empty states and wants to see them landing in Gnome ASAP
  • everybody loves the new visualisations of workspaces, where users can actually “look at” the workspaces and wants to see this landing in Gnome ASAP
  • everybody loves the general look and feel, that is provided by the animations and the new visuals, and loved to see this landing in Gnome ASAP

So explaining these things in your blog post might be a waste of time, as everybody already agrees on these points. Instead, it would be helpful if your blogpost focused on why a horizontal layout can not be decided separately from these points, and why a compromise in this regard is not possible.

From your latest post, I’ve understood exactly one argument for that:
It’s the fact that 2-dimensional swipe gestures are superior to 3-dimensional ones (pinch for the overview) as they are simpler, and horizontal gestures for opening and closing the overview feels awkward.

So your blog post could investigate on

  • why swipe gestures are superior to pinch gestures
  • why horizontal swipe gestures for opening the overview feel awkward, and why vertical swipe gestures for opening the overview don’t, even though the spatial image visualised is still “zooming out”
    (my guess on that: we have been trained by applications that don’t implement gestures properly that swiping vertically could be an alternative for pinching. This applies especially to online map applications, but also libchamplain, which powers Gnome Maps, but maybe you find other reasons for swiping vertically making sense for the spatial image of zooming out. This is important, because more and more online applications implement proper pinch zoom, and Gnome Maps is going to move to libshumate, which is going to implement pinch zoom instead of vertical swiping for zooming, so we probably can’t rely on users being trained by applications not implementing pinch zoom in the future)
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I thought the question being asked was specifically about the benefits of a vertical layout? To my mind, that question hasn’t been answered at all — I don’t see how any of these points are specific to a vertical layout.

That’s just related to having the workspaces on one direction and the app grid on the other direction, isn’t it? That doesn’t require workspaces to be changed to be horizontal.

That has nothing to do work the workspaces layout.

Isn’t this actually just about the wallpaper being scaled down along with the windows, so that you get a complete rectangle that looks like a desktop? I don’t believe this is to do with them being arranged horizontally. If it is, then how does that make them more intelligible?

I don’t see any explanation here. This seems more like “just wait and see”. We already have a spacial model with the current GNOME design, with the one exception of where the app grid comes in. With the current GNOME design, the spacial model is that when you open Activities, you zoom out to get a birds eye view of everything. Then you can move up/down between workspaces, and zoom back into them. It’s very intuitive. To me, this new design actually seems to have an inferior spacial model, as you’re essentially panning away from your workspace to get a zoomed-out view of it, which makes no sense.


Edit: I’ll add that I’m a long-time GNOME user, and I know change often annoys people regardless of whether it’s good or bad. I know people like to hate on every GNOME change. But I’m someone who’s generally supported the vast majority of GNOME changes, that thinks GNOME is far and away the best designed desktop environment. I think GNOME has fantastic designers and does a lot of things right, including controversial things such as the removal of tray icons, using CSD, etc. But this is one change that I just can’t agree with — not because it’s simply different, but because there are numerous practical drawbacks, and it seems like they’re not even being thought about. It just seems like a downgrade.

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Not just the app grid. There are two axis:

  • workspaces
  • session - window picker - app grid

Out of the two, workspaces are easier to change to horizontal (after all, that’s what used to be the case before GNOME 3). I simply don’t see how the “overview levels” would work horizontally without rotating the search entry by 90 degrees …